Jason (00:43)
I'm here with marketer and leader extraordinaire, Sarah Alter. Sarah, welcome to the Wisory Wise in Five.

Sarah Alter (00:51)
Jason, thank you for inviting me to join you. It's an honor, a true honor.

Jason (00:55)
It's my honor. Yeah,

it's so great to see you.

So what I thought we'd do before we dig into our five questions is just for you to share a little bit of your amazing background so people know what you've worked on and where you've been and then we can dig into the questions. Does that sound good to you?

Sarah Alter (01:14)
Excellent.

Currently, I am doing a fair bit of advisory board work for several startups.

And you know what, that's been a really interesting journey because I'd always been in corporate America, you know, worked for larger brands, know, publicly traded organizations. And I've spent the past year or so partnering with two different

one of the companies, it's an AI powered content management company. The other is HR strategy and solutions and it's an organization called Blue Spark.

excited what we're doing there. And we partner with small to mid-sized organizations and we provide them with a full suite of talent solutions. So search, assessments, coaching, leadership development, organizational solutions. So enjoying myself in that capacity and learning from that.

Jason (02:07)
Sounds wonderful.

Sarah Alter (02:09)
But yeah, prior to worked for incredible brands like Staples, in fact, worked for them over in Europe and then here in the States, mostly in marketing and sales executive roles. And in particular, I played a key role in helping them to build out all of their digital.

strategies and platforms, when commerce first showed up. ⁓ Also worked for Discover Financial Services.

Jason (02:37)
May

they rest in peace our shared employer back in the day.

Sarah Alter (02:39)
I know

they are cap one eventually turned into a CEO at one point for a phenomenal organization called NextUp.

which partners with half the Fortune 500 and it guides them in how to set women up for success.

Jason (02:57)
which we wanna talk more about in this podcast. So we're gonna come back to that one.

So thanks for that background. I don't know if we call it humble brag, but at most of those organizations, you were a true leader. So you for sharing that. I want to make sure you get full credit for who you are.

While we dig in the questions and the first question that I wanted to throw out, which is, where do you find sparks those moments of curiosity and of introspection for you?

Sarah Alter (03:28)
Yeah, no, you know, early in my career, and even now in my, you know, personal world, as well. I've always been energized by the concept of being a servant leader. And, you know, where I've, delivered the most I've, had the most fun, I've been the most successful.

has been when I've worked in a role and in a team or in an organization where that was just foundational to the culture, right? And to the mission of what that organization was doing. you know, so when people ask me, hey, what type of a leader are you? I always say, I am a servant leader. My mom raised us with the philosophy of you were put on this earth to serve others.

And I think that just took root very early in my childhood. And then it's carried over into the various adventures I've had in my career. And when I look at, say, like Staples and Quill, the division of Staples that I spent most of my time with in my Staples career, it was like everything started and ended and just completely focused in and around.

the customer, know, and who we were there to serve.

Personally, one of my greater passions these days, I volunteer at a local animal shelter and walk dogs and cuddle and smooch dogs and then I'm on the board and I help them raise money.

Jason (04:52)
Awesome.

I love

So let's, I want to dig into NextUp a little bit because ⁓ such an important role, such an important company. And I mean, you led one of the largest organizations to help women in

Sarah Alter (04:58)
Thank

Jason (05:08)
what are some of the points of wisdom that you would share

with women as they're growing their career?

Sarah Alter (05:14)
and foremost, it's you have to be true to your authentic self, right? You have to embrace who you are. Don't ever lose sight of that. And any organization or role or boss that would tell you otherwise,

Yeah, they're misguided and they are taking you down the exact wrong path. I had some situations where, I literally got I was too nice or I wore too bright of colors. And I literally, although I'm wearing black today, although I'm wearing purple lipstick today, but, but I know it was, it was a nod. It was a nod

Jason (05:46)
That's for the Wisory I thought.

Sarah Alter (05:52)
Yeah, I shortly thereafter, after getting that feedback, I left because I thought, okay, this is not going to work, right? Don't mistake kindness or niceness as weakness. So, and foremost, what I always like to and I am humbled by it when they do who seeks my advice and guidance. It's like, you've got it. You've got to stay your true self. Now, it doesn't mean,

you don't have to advance yourself or continue to learn or develop, right? Knowledge has a shelf life. So you've constantly got to be a lifelong learner. And secondarily, that's where you, like I said, you're only as strong as your team or your partnerships. You've got to invest in your But the third thing and the most important thing is choosing where you work. And in today's climate and environment,

seeing leaders and organizations respond in different ways to the changing political tides. And was so fortunate six years I was the CEO at NextUp and I got to meet just some of the most incredible leaders in the Fortune 500. We partnered with half the Fortune 500. And

a successful business is one where there is a diversity of perspectives and you get an experiences and you get that as a business when you invest in and stay committed to bringing in a diversity across genders, across age, across upbringings, across ethnicity, sexual orientations, identities, et cetera.

And those organizations that have always done it and still continue to do it, hats off to them.

So again, tying it back to closing out that third point, Jason, my advice is be very aware. Do your research. Meet as many people as you can because you want to find that culture and that leadership team that their values and their mission aligns with your own.

will be more successful in the longer term because they're doing what they need to do to invest in their business model.

Jason (07:50)
I really appreciate all you shared. It plays into what you had talked about in terms of being a servant leader as well. Right. Because it all ties together because as a woman who's worked in a number of these organizations, very large organizations where you really hit the top, you were leading them and then working with NextUp where you can see being your authentic self as a leader is true for you.

Sarah Alter (07:56)
Yeah.

Jason (08:14)
but also your people will follow you, right? People know if you're real or not, and if you're putting on an act or not. And so I think it all kind of works together that way.

Sarah Alter (08:16)
Yeah.

Jason (08:24)
So you referenced also, we're on question number three, so we are cooking with gas, So you both had boards, right? And you've served on boards. And I'm curious, how has that kind of 360 view informed your perspective on growing a business?

Sarah Alter (08:30)
Yeah.

So two things come to mind. One, to your point as the CEO of NextUp, I had an incredible board. And gosh, when I started, there were probably like 40 people on the board. And we ended up optimizing that. We pulled it down in size.

And we elevated it in terms of the level of leadership, people who had true decision making and budget control, people who could write big checks. But then we also diversified it across different industries and across different roles. There were CFOs, there were CMOs, there were CEOs, there were CHROs. But I learned how to better leverage the board.

Jason (09:09)
Mm-hmm.

Sarah Alter (09:24)
Right? wasn't, you I went into it naively at first. I was a first time CEO and a first time board facing CEO. And I went into it thinking, oh, it's a dog and pony show and I need to be, you know, impressing them. And the more I spoke, the better off the board meetings were. Cause I could prove to them just how successful I was being. And I had everything under control.

Well, I quickly learned that was the biggest mistake you could ever make. You needed to leverage them to tap into their insights, into their experience, into their thought leadership. And then quite frankly, to leverage them as stakeholders and ambassadors for you as a brand and as an organization. And I quickly learned how to

Jason (09:52)
Ha

Sarah Alter (10:15)
shift the board meetings from, you know, big ass presentations to big ass discussions and more robust conversation and questions and answers. And the less I spoke, the more successful the board meeting was. so, as people engage in the Wisory the good news is you've been so selective in who you've chosen that, we've all got a few wrinkles and gray hairs.

Jason (10:29)
That's great insight.

Sarah Alter (10:41)
But we've learned that the most valuable role for a board advisor or for consultant isn't to tell you what to do or to hear yourself talking. It's to ask questions. It's to, help guide leaders through the journey or the challenge or the opportunity that they're trying to tackle. And again, not telling them what to do, but what are the things that they should be thinking about? What options they might have?

It's all about driving discussion, right? And so that was like a big, for me. and even just in interviewing for board roles, right? It's not about what you did. It's about how you can help that leader in that organization and shifting your perspective as you position yourself. I think the second thing in having been on boards is you've got to find that optimal balance of

managing and growing short term versus long term. And sometimes depending on the scale and the cash flow, I mean, you could literally be worried about how I'm going to be funding payroll every week, but you still cannot lose sight of I've got to plant the seeds. I've got to build that lead pipeline. I've got to grow my prospect strategy as well as retain and grow my current.

know, customers or clients or partners. it's about, finding that balance. And then particularly as the leader, making sure you're not too in the micro, but you're not too in the macro, right? You've got to, you've got to hover between. Yeah. Yeah. And, and you just, you know, you know, when to pivot

Jason (12:09)
It's a delicate balance for sure.

Sarah Alter (12:15)
your role and your level of when you need to pivot the strategy or, the operations or the campaign, if it's not working, pivot. But yeah, I think those would be the two key takeaways from the board engagement I've been lucky enough.

Jason (12:28)
That's terrific.

mean, based on what you shared, the wisdom coming out of it, some people view asking questions as a sign of weakness, Versus a sign of strength. And I think I'm not saying that's what your experience told you there, but you got more value when you understood it was letting the board answer the questions that you were asking versus guiding them to things that you were doing.

So I think that's a really smart insight. It's something that is obviously critical for us. It's why the Wisory exists, some people it's hard to get over that hump, right? And not admit that they may need, it may not just be help, it may just be validation of a path that they're looking to go down.

Sarah Alter (13:12)
Absolutely, exactly. And I've seen a lot of that.

Jason (13:17)
So going back to kind of where we are today in this business climate, because there are things that keep shifting, right? It's for some, it's kind of hard to find where that steady ground is. And it may be hard to answer directly, but what challenges are you hearing from business leaders today? they similar challenges that they've always dealt with? Are there new things coming up that you're hearing based on some of the shifts that are?

occurring around us.

Sarah Alter (13:45)
Yeah, I loved and I can't remember who coined this phrase, but post pandemic, somebody called it the never normal. know, and yeah, the never normal and and I feel that it applies to today, right? Because there is just never ending shifts in.

Jason (13:55)
Okay, not the new normal, the never normal.

Sarah Alter (14:07)
economy and in political stances and governmental regulation and, and, the, the new currency, the new leadership currency, it's, it's all about change management. Right. And I know, and I know it's like, everyone's talked about that for centuries, right? Not even decades, but centuries, but it's navigating and leading change management. You know,

your team through this period of uncertainty and that at some point you got to put a stake in the ground and just say, can't avoid risk. I got to make a decision and go with it and hope that knowledge I have, I am making that right decision. And if it turns out to just be completely wrong, you pivot quickly, right?

At some point, you can be,

frozen or paralyzed, the uncertainty or at some point you just have to make some assumptions and take some bets. And you don't bet the whole farm, but you, you have to navigate your way through it. and, and I think that, one of the things I clearly learned in it, and it ties back to being a servant leader is it's all about understanding.

what your customer, your client or your partner, what do they need and want? Or what don't they even know they need and want? And it's your role then to help innovate and to develop that. And particularly during these trickier times, the messaging that's so crucial and I saw this play out at Discover, because I was there during that recessionary period.

708, you know, when all the financial institutions were being taken to task by the CFPB and we really shifted our marketing position. And at that point to, Hey, we're your partner in good and bad. And right now it's a really tricky period. It's recessionary, here to help you save more, spend smarter, manage your debt better.

now more than ever, like as a business leader, one, you can't, can't be frozen, can't be paralyzed by uncertainty. Got to take some bets and risks, but inform yourself as best you can from your customer perspective, stay in tune with them. And when you convey that emotional partnership and relationship, it's going to pay off in spades because you're going to see a true partner who's in it with them in the, in the good and the bad.

Jason (16:30)
That's exactly and it also goes back to something you said before of how do you balance the short and the long term? Right, you may give up a little bit in the short term to build that longer term relationship with whatever constituent matters to you at that So so we have asked all five questions, but I have a bonus question for

Sarah Alter (16:35)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason (16:49)
With all this great wisdom that you shared, what kind of questions do you think you'd want to help our members answer? So as they say, Sarah looks amazing. They saw this podcast. They look at your background. What would you say, you know, you're ready to answer for them when they knock on your virtual door?

Sarah Alter (17:10)
I am a transformational leader. So I'm the leader that comes in and partners with you when you literally have to take your business model today and do a 180.

know, I've had, you know, great success and I played so many different roles where I was, developing the digital, the mobile, the social media strategies. I was the leader that could come in and I had that blank sheet of paper and I knew, okay, how do we need to educate ourselves and, and who do we pull in to our team? Well, all the people that know a heck of a lot more than us.

I had to do it post-COVID where we went into COVID, 99 % of the revenue funded by in-person programming. So yeah, yeah. So again, we had to take a blank sheet of paper and figure out, okay, how do you transform into a virtual model? How do you monetize it? How do you make money?

Jason (18:00)
wow. Little bit there.

Sarah Alter (18:14)
you scale it. So, I'm the type of part thought leader and thought partner that can come in and help you take that blank sheet of paper and and ask the right questions as to hey, where do you start when you need to transform a model? Or you need to build a model? I can help guide you in terms of what are those crucial first steps? And most importantly, what are the questions that you need to answer? I

got taught this by one of my favorite, favorite partners when I was at General Growth Properties, Meredith Darnell. And she taught me it's not about just collecting data or doing research. It's about figuring out what questions do you need to answer. And then you figure out, OK, do I collect data? Do I do research? Do I gather insights? But it's as you grow a business model or build it from scratch, it's like, what

who do you want to serve? And then what are the questions that you need to ask in order to enable you to serve them successfully?

Jason (19:18)
Well, smart advice. The wisdom just oozes out of you. So Sarah, thank you so much for making the time. Thank you for being an amazing advisor, a servant leader, a transformational partner. I love all of it and can't wait to talk with you more and have our members engage with you more on the Wisory.

Sarah Alter (19:20)
You

you, Jason, for inviting me. I enjoyed it. Thank you.

Jason (19:40)
Well, thank you. All right. All the best.