Jason (00:37)
Hi Jackie, it's great to see you today.

Jackie Woodward (00:39)
Hey Jason, how's everything in your world?

Jason (00:42)
Everything's pretty good. We had a little bit of a storm last night, but ⁓ everyone survived. We didn't have to break out the arc, which is good ⁓ You've been in Chicago, so you know what it's like

Jackie Woodward (00:49)
good, okay.

Yes, that is very true. But I live in North Carolina now and it is springtime here. that's right. That's right.

Jason (00:55)
Right.

Twist the knife just a little bit. Well, thank you

so much for for joining. Thrill to have you one as an amazing advisor on The Wisory platform, but for also joining us for our wise in five. So before we dig in, I'd love for you just to share your wonderful background with the folks who are watching and listening.

Jackie Woodward (01:15)
Absolutely.

Sure, okay. Well, let's just kick it off by saying I am a person who loves consumers and who loves selling fun food and beverages to consumers, which is where I've spent most of my career in ⁓ various food and beverage industries, ranging across business models, though, from public to private, from franchise to regulated alcoholic beverage industry, pure CPG, and...

franchise businesses, distributor businesses, but it all kind of comes together now that I'm consulting with The Wisory and consulting with many other, clients and coaching as well. I like to say I transform businesses and people for growth. So really I've looked throughout my entire career, I've always sought out opportunities for transformation. I like to say I get bored easily.

And so, especially I really started to notice that about myself in 2003, when I was a part of the team at McDonald's that launched, I'm loving it. And that was a very transformational moment for that brand. For those of your listeners who were around then, it was a transformational moment for the brand. And that's, that's where I really kind of got the bug. I guess I would say of this is hard and really challenging and up against a lot. yet.

Jason (02:21)
I've of that. Yeah, I think I've heard of the

Jackie Woodward (02:38)
the rewards are worth every bit of it. So particularly ever since then, I left there in 2006 and spent nine years in the beer business with Miller Coors, now Molson Coors. That was a transformation in and of itself because of an acquisition that took place between Miller and Coors in 2008. I spent a couple of years at General Mills helping transform their marketing mix and

really driving a very consumer-led, consumer-centric connections planning model. And then I rounded out my corporate America career ⁓ as chief marketing officer of Krispy Kreme Donuts here in North Carolina and Bojangles Restaurants, which is a fried chicken chain based in the Southeast, but growing rapidly, which was part of the remit there. So I'm now consulting. I think it's pretty funny that this very consumer-driven

Jason (03:22)
Mm-hmm.

Jackie Woodward (03:28)
primarily food and beverage gal is now working on a Brazilian fintech, a real estate e-commerce site and a sports property. But we'll talk about that as we get into the questions. I believe the fundamentals are the fundamentals. And I love the chase and the excitement of finding ways to get these businesses really rocking and rolling and having fun.

Jason (03:40)
I, I, I'm just...

Well, that's the most important thing and I'm sure your clients are are benefiting from not only you having fun, but also all the wisdom that you're bringing from the things that you worked on and burgers, beer, donuts, like burgers, beer and donuts. Like come on. I mean who doesn't love that?

Jackie Woodward (04:00)
Well, I'd like to. Right.

Yeah. And each one of them transformative in their own on their own time and in their own moments. So so that's Jackie.

Jason (04:14)
⁓ wonderful. So I want to ask you the first question, which is something I ask all my guests, which is where do you find inspiration just in daily life?

Jackie Woodward (04:23)
I love to walk. So I walk two to three, sometimes four miles a day. And particularly now that I'm on my own and I can control my schedule, I walk periodically throughout the day as well. And that is, I solve problems when I walk, Jason. I mean, if I've got really chewing on something, I take a walk. It opens my mind. It helps me to just, you know,

breathe and that's where I get inspiration. On the business side, I also get inspiration from a blank whiteboard. That may sound kind of crazy, but I love a good blank whiteboard because it's a blank whiteboard signals possibility to me. Some people look at a blank whiteboard and get into paralysis. I look at a blank whiteboard and say, we can create something from scratch, something transformational. so between walking and whiteboards,

That's what keeps me going.

Jason (05:13)
There's got to be a third W in there somewhere. We'll get to it before the end of this. But like you've mentioned, you've had these amazing career opportunities, journey, and McDonald's, Miller coors Krispy Kreme. As you said, you know, there's, there's patterns, right? That you see. And I'm curious, like, what's the through line in your career that you'd say cuts across a lot of the companies and brands that you've worked with?

Jackie Woodward (05:37)
You know, it sounds so fundamental, but it is true. And that is start with the consumer. Really knowing and understanding who your audience is, ⁓ that consumer or customer in some cases, there might be, it might be more B2B or DSD models, but starting with your deep understanding of your customer or your consumer is just fundamental for me. Because once you start to understand them,

and you understand what are the pain points in their lives and what are the opportunities in their lives, that's where the magic starts to happen, is when you can bring a brand to provide solutions for consumer problems or consumer opportunities. That's what gets me going and it has always been that way. I've always been most interested in relevance and in driving relevance.

and in uncovering and unlocking what is that one thing that we do for consumers better than anybody else.

Jason (06:36)
I love that. I would guess, I mean, as the world has transformed and transitioned into more and more data-driven and technology platforms, you're able to get even to a more finite level in understanding consumer and client motivation and desires and how do you engage with them?

Jackie Woodward (06:56)
Yes,

that is absolutely true. And, you know, especially understanding their behaviors. I've often said, if I weren't a marketer, I might be a behavioral psychologist because I'm really fascinated by how people make decisions and how to influence how people make decisions. And so yes, the data really helps at the same time, just listening to people and qualitatively, as well as quantitatively thinking about what matters in their lives.

Jason (07:05)
You

Jackie Woodward (07:22)
I think it's both. I think it's both.

Jason (07:24)
Mm-hmm.

I totally agree. So you're an amazing brand builder, right? Amazing marketer. And and so how do you balance that long term need right for businesses to build a brand? But you may have heard they also want to be driving sales and revenue at the same time. So how do you balance more that short term need to deliver the revenue and sales with the long term need to keep building the brand?

Jackie Woodward (07:48)
Well, okay now Jason, if I had the answer to that question, do you think that'd still be working? That's right. I mean, look, it is the nature of marketers' jobs. mean, our job is to create demand, full stop. Our job is to create demand. And so demand comes in the form of sales and those sales take place both short-term and long-term.

Jason (07:51)
Well, that's where you're part of The Wisory

Jackie Woodward (08:11)
In particular, know, the vast majority of my career has always been about retail, whether it was food and beverage or some of my clients now, some of the clients I've had over the last two years since I've been doing this. It's all about retail and retail is very short term driven. But, you know, I think I think often about one of my first mentors, a guy named Paul Shraggie.

who was the first chief marketing officer of McDonald's from 1967 to 1997, before the term chief marketing officer ever existed. Paul really created McDonald's brand. And Paul always used to say, think like a brand and act like a retailer. And that's what I follow is you have to always have the long-term in your mind because the long-term is creating

is value creation. That's what's creating brand value over time and brand equity. And that's what ownership and CEOs and boards are looking for. But it doesn't happen without short-term sales. So think like a brand, act like a retailer, kind of gives it a one-two punch. So it's not an either or as much as it is a one-two punch of thinking like a brand and acting like a retailer.

Jason (09:10)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely.

That's terrific. So I'm going to ask you a follow up to that, which is I'll use the punching. So you're in the ring, right? And it's, budget time. And now, you know, someone's saying, all right, Jackie, we have this pool of money for branding and this pool of money for retail. want to drive more sales. How do you manage that? I don't think they're opposing needs, but how do you just balance between those two, two business needs?

Jackie Woodward (09:31)
Yep. Yep.

Well, every business is different. I don't think there's a one size fits all approach. think there's a lot of double clicking down into that, Jason, in order to really get to the heart of the matter. I am a big fan of marketing mix analysis. I know it's expensive. I know it's time consuming. But it's very directional, and it shows where your next dollar should go. That's what I use it for the most. And so I love having data like that.

⁓ at this, that's the science at the same time. It's also art, you know, and you, learn, you move fast and you learn. will tell you though, you know, Krispy Kreme had a real successful run when I was there and our media budgets were tiny. It was all social. It was all social. And that didn't cut. It was all organic social, by the way. So, you know, I think it's as much about how you engage with your consumers than it is.

what the budget is, but without a doubt, I mean, that's our holy grail. And the ones who really crack the code to drive both, mean, hats off to them, hats off.

Jason (10:46)
Yeah.

Well, and then to your point, like I think about Krispy Kreme, iconic brand, like truly brand advocates, Brand lovers the people who wearing Krispy Kreme shirts and whatnot, right? So they had a running start, but I completely agree with you, especially around media mix analysis and getting into that data. So I mean, as a follow on to that, what do you think the CEO, you know, what do they still not fully understand?

Jackie Woodward (10:55)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason (11:13)
about marketing.

Jackie Woodward (11:14)
Well, I don't think CEOs are one size fits all either. I mean, I've worked for CEOs who have huge belief in marketing. I've had worked for CEOs who don't believe in marketing and everything in between. So, what I, I guess what I would say I see the most often is they don't understand the art and they do understand the science. I mean, data and performance marketing. I really hate that term because I think all marketing should be performance. Like I said,

It is all of our jobs to create demand and both, and you need both long-term and short-term to do that. think, you know, CEOs who are held accountable for quarterly results are going to make different decisions than CEOs who take a long view. And so you really have to adapt to whatever that environment is. And sometimes there's trade-offs. In fact, usually there's trade-offs.

Jason (11:53)
Very true.

Jackie Woodward (12:03)
whether I've had a $600 million budget or a $6 million budget, there's always trade-offs. There's never enough money and there's always trade-offs. you know, understanding that art and the decision-making around how do you decide about trade-offs, that to me is where I find myself having to explain when the performance marking, the lower funnel stuff is pretty obvious.

Jason (12:27)
I like how you said explain versus defend.

Jackie Woodward (12:29)
Well, because I think it is an explanation. You know, it is an explanation. don't, I don't think we're, I don't, I don't want to defend brand or, or performance. want to defend growth and creating demand. And so explaining my decisions for how we're going to get to that at the end of the day, that's what a CEO really wants to know. How are you going to get me to growth? And that's why I, I deliberately use that word, I guess, is I think it's us to explain that.

Jason (12:30)
We've all been in that room.

That's right.

Totally agree. So let's let's talk about the people side of the business, right? So you've run these amazing marketing teams with amazing results. And so question is, what's your secret? What's your secret in building and retaining great marketing teams?

Jackie Woodward (13:00)
Okay.

Well, thank you for that. I really appreciate it. I'm really proud of how I build teams. It's why when I hung out my own shingle for Jackie 2.0, as I call it, two and a half years ago, not only consulting, but executive coaching is a part of my practice now. I got certified. So it's not just, know, hey, you're a good leader and you develop people. there's talk about art and science. There's a lot of science to coaching. It was hard.

I had no idea. learned so much and so much about myself too, really, because a good coach has to be very, very self-aware as well. but to that point, you know, the number one thing I think is showing your team that you care. You've got to really care. You know, that Maya Angelou quote, people won't remember what you said or what you did. They'll remember how you made them feel. That is not just true of consumers.

or brands, that is true of teams too. And so I really care about my people. But there's a few other things too. I think ⁓ cultivating people is really important and who doesn't want to work for a boss who cares and who is interested in cultivating you to your best potential. So I think it takes a lot of time, but it's time that's well worth it because how else are you going to

create growth, how else are you gonna drive demand if you don't have people who are really invested with you? And I empower my people, know, the number one thing I say in a one-on-one is how can I help? How can I help? So I'm here to help, I'm here to break down barriers, I'm here to protect, but at the end of the day, it's yours and I'm the helper.

And the people who have really flourished on my teams really love that.

Jason (14:59)
Yeah, I could makes total sense. But sometimes things that make total sense. Not everyone does it and was makes you a great leader and a great advisor for the Wisory So I love that I'm loving it. so kind of a future looking question, ⁓ especially given the type of work you're doing now and you're talking about executive coaching. So

Jackie Woodward (15:14)
Okay.

Jason (15:19)
I mean, and talk about transformation. I mean, I don't know if we've been through a greater time broadly where there's been this much transformation all around us. So with that, what do you think will define the next great CMO? What will they struggle with if they don't really follow this path?

Jackie Woodward (15:25)
Thank

Well, Jason, I think what makes great CMOs is the same thing that made Paul Schragi a great CMO 30, 40, 50 years ago. And that is being agile, being adaptive, being curious, being focused on the consumer. And those fundamentals never change. We've got to be agile. We've got to be adaptive. I was just on a call with a client. are trying.

whole new approach to how they are going to market and they're like, whoa, this is really different. What are we gonna do? But they're trying. They're trying it and they've learned a lot. So I think that kind of agility and adaptability combined with curiosity and just a core love for your consumer, mean, will never change. Now, what are you adapting to? What do you have to be agile for?

what is happening with consumers in your competition today, that's all changing. But if you adopt a mindset of adaptability and agility and curiosity, and at the heart of it all, what's gonna matter to our consumers? How do we make a difference in their lives? The rest will open up and flourish. You'll find it. So I don't think there's a silver bullet. I think it's a mindset and a way of working that is...

Jason (16:28)
Mm-hmm.

Jackie Woodward (16:49)
ready for anything, grounded in solid knowledge, solid data, good common sense sometimes, and a desire to win.

Jason (16:59)
That is a perfect answer to me. You know, when I when I teach at Indiana and I bring in these amazing guest speakers, every single one of them follows the same direction that you just gave because students coming out right now are freaked out, right? Freaked out with a variety of things. But one of most important is what do need to know from an AI perspective? And every single leader comes in and says it's about your curiosity.

Jackie Woodward (17:17)
Yes.

Jason (17:26)
It's about the way to look around corners, the way that you operate as a team and as a future leader. Like those are the things that are going to take you to, you know, get you that job, but then keep getting the next job and build the relationship. So absolutely perfect answer.

Jackie Woodward (17:32)
That's right.

That's exactly right.

That's exactly right, Jason. know, AI, I mean, I'm using AI every day. was listening to a webinar earlier today about geo. I'm learning fast. ⁓ I've got a couple of clients who really need to understand this and quickly, and it's my job to help educate them and help get them there. But we weren't talking about geo, you know, 18 months ago. And so you just have to...

You have to be open and be ready to adapt and be curious and learn. So I'm on my own now, you know, so I have to learn about these things by myself. And I just, it's an investment in time, but it's an investment in time that's paying off for the future.

Jason (18:17)
Well, I think that is absolutely right. But it's also you having the wisdom and understanding the patterns of not just learning that, but understanding how to apply it on behalf of your clients and their business. That's really the key that only your experience and your success is able to take it to the next level. So I don't want to shortchange that at all because not not everyone can do that. So we you answered our wise in five perfectly.

Jackie Woodward (18:33)
⁓ That's true.

Jason (18:44)
No surprise. I do have one more question for you. So as folks want to engage with you on the Wisory as the businesses come to you, what would you think your best position to help them with?

Jackie Woodward (18:47)
Good.

I transform businesses and people for growth. Some of them are about strapping on the rocket ship. Things are going great now. How do we make them even better? And it's all about, at the end of the day, finding those points of relevance.

and meeting those points of relevance with the products and services that are going to matter to our consumers. I transform businesses and people for growth.

Jason (19:17)
Love it. Love it. You've got your elevator pitch down. Thank you so much for making the time, for sharing your wisdom, for being an executive advisor on The Wisory. I'm thrilled to have you as part of the team and look forward to talking with you again soon. Thanks, Jackie. You too. You too.

Jackie Woodward (19:30)
Thank you. Great to be with you, Jason. Yeah, have a great day. Bye