Jason (00:37)
Hi, I'm here with my good friend longtime business acquaintance, Joel Warady. Joel, welcome to The Wise in Five.

Joel Warady (00:44)
Thanks, Jason. Great to be here. Really appreciate it.

Jason (00:47)
Well, I appreciate it. appreciate you making the time. I know you've got a really busy schedule with all the different businesses that you work with. But you've just been so amazing in the background that you have around marketing strategy, leading businesses, advising businesses, especially in the CPG space, the natural space. I'd love if you can give the listeners a little bit more color about your background, all the amazing things that you've done.

Joel Warady (01:12)
Sure. Well, I started out as an entrepreneur and have been pretty much entrepreneurial my whole life. For about 17 years, I owned a toothbrush, dental floss whitening company. It was another lifetime. And what I would say about my time as an entrepreneur, I was a good entrepreneur, not a great entrepreneur. And what I then found

was that I was great working with founders and helping them be great entrepreneurs. So I spent some time in a company called Enjoy Life Foods. We successfully grew that and were acquired by Mondalez. I stayed and ran that company on behalf of Mondalez for some time and then worked with a company called Catalina Crunch, which got involved while it was a business plan.

Grew it to about a hundred million in revenue before I departed. And today I spend my time advising companies as well as sitting on boards and acting either as a board member or chairman of the board.

Jason (02:12)
That's terrific. And it's so easy to grow those companies, right? To go from a business plan to hundred million dollars and, taking Enjoy Life to Mondalez. That's a no brainer, right?

Joel Warady (02:22)
That's right. Well, what's interesting is that I was great at helping create strategy. And it was interesting that when I was doing it for others, it gave me a certain amount of freedom that I didn't feel I had when I was the owner of the company. And one of the things that's great, there's a line in Clint Eastwood, Dirty Harry Movies, which is

A man has to know his limitations. I knew my limitations and I became a great number two.

Jason (02:49)
Number one, that's the first Dirty Harry quote that we've had on the podcast series. I really appreciate that, but I love the message behind it. So why don't we dive into our Wise in Five and my first question that I ask from everyone is where do you find inspiration just in everyday life?

Joel Warady (02:52)
There.

That's a great question. Well, one of the things that I will pride myself on is I'm a voracious reader. You can kind of see it over my shoulder. I read a lot and I only read nonfiction, so I miss out on the inspiration of fiction. But I read across multiple channels, if you will, not just business books. I'm reading a lot of history, a lot of biography.

So I gain a lot of inspiration from the reading that I do. And then the other inspiration that I get from is going into retail stores that have nothing to do with the world in which I live. So I will spend a lot of time in clothing stores or in toy stores, just really trying to soak in how different merchandising is happening across different channels.

because it gives me inspiration for the work that I do in CPG.

Jason (03:58)
So a lot of the listeners, when they wander into their local tattoo parlor, they shouldn't be surprised to see you just checking out the merchandise there.

Joel Warady (04:06)
That's exactly right. If we had more time, I'd tell you a great tattoo story, but I won't. I won't bore the listeners.

Jason (04:13)
Your stories are unbelievable. I never know what's going to come up. So my next question is you've been involved in businesses at all different stages. From your experience, what's the difference that you see between growing a business to achieve stability versus managing growth in an established business? As you took Enjoy Life Foods to Mondalez, I'm sure very different set of

Joel Warady (04:15)
You

Jason (04:35)
things that you need to consider at those stages.

Joel Warady (04:38)
Yeah, well, it's a great question. I may answer it slightly different than what you asked, but and my friends at Mondalez they're certainly going to take offense to what I'm about to say. But the large CPG companies, they are caretakers of brands. They very seldom create a new brand. They acquire brands, but then they can grow them.

from a base of whatever that base may be, whether it's 50 million or 100 million, and then they become caretakers. And I'm very familiar with Mondalez but if you look at Oreo as an example, well, that was created by National Biscuit Company, and then companies like Kraft and Mondalez took care of the brand and grew it. I think creating strategy to grow a brand from scratch, totally different skill set.

And one of the things that I see is that many people who come from the larger companies who know how to grow a brand from a hundred million on, they can't figure out how to grow a brand from zero. It's a different skillset. And I pride myself that I've been able to create that playbook as to how to grow brands from zero.

Jason (05:48)
and you've done an amazing job. I'm curious, what would you say the difference is? What is that different skill set? If you could point to a couple things.

Joel Warady (05:57)
Well, number one is you really have to listen to your consumer. And it sounds cliche, but it actually works. And a great example when I joined Enjoy Life Foods, Twitter was just becoming a known entity. And one of the things that I did is I tweeted out my cell phone number. And I said, I'm the new chief sales and marketing officer for Enjoy Life Foods. Here's my cell phone number. Call me.

contacted me right away and said, Joel, I think you made a mistake. I think you meant to send that as a direct message. I said, no. Said I sent it out. They said, people will call you. I said, exactly. what is a better way to listen to your consumer? So I always find it interesting that in today within social media, how many different CEOs spend absolutely no time talking to consumers or will turn off comments when they do things like podcasts.

Like you want to listen to the people because I do have a trite, if you will, saying which is we don't own our brands, they own the brand and they are the consumers. So we may say our brand is one thing, consumers will tell you what your brand really is.

Jason (07:07)
Exactly right. Even more so now. In the world of social media and as you're moving to AI, the brand is theirs. You're exactly right.

Joel Warady (07:09)
Yeah.

Absolutely.

Jason (07:13)
So what do you see? We're in question three, by the way. So we're moving pretty fast. But what are the major challenges that you see in the CPG space today? we know that with tariffs that came up with supply chain, we know cash flow is a constant issue, distribution, access to capital, manufacturing, strategic planning. There's all these different things. But what do you think the largest challenges are in today's space for?

for CPG companies.

Joel Warady (07:40)
Well, you mentioned quite a few of them. What I will say about capital, there is more capital available than there ever has been before. And the venture capitalists and the private equity firms are being more stingy with it than they ever have before. So it's there.

but they're not pulling the trigger as fast. So certainly the access to capital for emerging brands, very challenging. Supply chain, it's a huge problem. It is great that we live in a global supply chain world, but that is also a problem. We certainly saw it during COVID when rates on shipping containers skyrocketed.

We saw it again in the Middle East when there were issues at Suez Canal. So global supply chain is a real issue. One of the things that I advise all the companies with whom I work is to immediately get secondary and if you can, tertiary suppliers beyond your primary supplier. So that if you do have an interruption, and I almost guarantee you will have an interruption, you have additional supply.

And then what I would say is it's becoming more expensive to do business than ever before. you whether you're selling to Walmart or Wally's gas station, no one wants to absorb price increases. So when you have these tariffs, the retailers or the distributors with whom you're working expect you to absorb them. And so I think manufacturers, especially small and mid-sized manufacturers are being squeezed.

And so it's how do you manage that while getting secondary and tertiary suppliers? It's not easy.

Jason (09:19)
Yeah. So I'm to ask you a 3A on that. So less on the supply side, more on the distribution side, because I think they drive one another. Where some of these brands, small or mid-sized brands, they go more the direct to consumer channel, right? Because of the squeeze on the margin as well as then the squeeze with distribution and supply. How do you see that working with direct to consumer versus if they're trying to do an end around if they can?

with traditional retail distribution.

Joel Warady (09:48)
Yeah, I think there's a great opportunity in direct to consumer and I'm going to lump in even Amazon with DTC. But you definitely can go direct to the consumer, disintermediate the sale. However,

There's only a certain percentage of people that will buy online. so, whether it's 10 % or 15%, you still have 85 % of the people who are shopping regular brick and mortar. Now, there are exceptions. I use as an example, AG1. AG1 is a great example of a brand that stayed true to DTC.

until they were about 600 million in revenue and then finally went retail at Costco and some other outlets. But I think DTC, it's going to limit you as to how big you can get as a brand, except for those few exceptions that occur.

Jason (10:40)
think that's exactly right. I'm going to actually drink a cup of wisdom to that. So thank you for it.

So, I mean, you mentioned AG1 and there may be some others, but who would you say is getting it right in the market today and why? Like who's building the brand and brand loyalty behind it?

Joel Warady (10:56)
Yeah, there's some great examples out there. One of them is a Chicago hometown company, Chomps. Chomps is doing a great job. You know, I think what's interesting about Chomps is they entered a market that was tired, meat sticks. They entered a market that had really big brands like Jack Links, and they created a great

differentiator for themselves that they were no sugar and they started out as a DTC brand for the first three to four years, kept it kind of small. They did get fortunate where Trader Joe's saw it and said, hey, we think this will be great for us. And Trader Joe's, which tends to only have their own brand said, we'll let you keep the Chomps brand. And so, today, Chomps is still a private company.

There are estimates that Chomps will surpass 500 million in revenue selling meat sticks and people know the brand. So I think they've done a great job. I think another brand that's done a really great job is Olipop. And I should point out to the listeners that I'm a very small investor in Olipop, not in Chomps, but with Olipop, I think what's interesting is it's a polarizing brand.

Jason (11:46)
incredible.

Joel Warady (12:08)
Because you'll hear a lot of people, I had breakfast with someone this morning who said to me, I don't understand how people drink Olipop. And then I have other people who say, this is the greatest thing I've ever tasted in my life. So I think what Olipop has done is created a great brand and create brand loyalty. And people who drink Olipop won't drink Poppi and vice versa. It's a great example of people who are loyal to the brand.

Jason (12:34)
New Pepsi Coke, right?

Joel Warady (12:36)
New Pepsi Coke. And you know, the thing is about beverage. I'm not a beverage expert. Beverages can be faddy, not F-A-T-T-Y, but F-A-D-D-Y. And personally, I think a beverage like Liquid Death, we all know it's water in a can. I think it doesn't have long-term longevity like an Olipop or a Poppi.

because it is just water in a can. Whereas Poppi and Olipop, they did something unique with formulations, both a little bit different. And same with Chomps, different formulation. So I think what you wanna have with a brand is you wanna have a product that is meaningful to people and that people fall in love with, and at the same time have a brand that people remember.

Jason (13:24)
I love that. it's the emotional connection, but also driven off some of the functional benefit that they're providing.

Joel Warady (13:30)
That's right. mean, there's a great book that was written years ago called Love Marks. And what it talks about is why people fall in love with a brand. It's not enough to say, I like that brand, because then you'll move on. But if you fall in love with a brand, for instance, I am in love with the Apple ecosystem. You'll never see me use anything that's not made by Apple when it comes to technology.

So that's a love mark for me. And I talk about Apple products and use the word love all the time.

Jason (14:02)
Well, you are my love mark, Joel. So thank you for that.

Joel Warady (14:06)
Thanks, Jason.

Jason (14:07)
So what patterns do you see, both good and bad, with either businesses been a part of or businesses you advised? I mean, we're talking about these love marks, but is there a secret sauce to success, whether it's that the founder, the person that's running it, the team, the product itself? Like, what is it that you would say you need these couple of things to really land the business that you're trying to grow?

Joel Warady (14:32)
I think with founders, if I can, I'll reverse it a little bit and say that One of the biggest red flags with founders is when I meet with a founder and I asked them what their three or five year or sometimes their 10 year plan. And usually the word exit is in that plan. That's a red flag for me. If you're building a brand to exit it, that's a red flag. You should build a brand.

that it's going to last forever. If you have the option that you can exit it, great, good for you. But what people tend to do is when they build a brand to exit, their strategy becomes incorrect. And so they'll burn through a lot of capital. They're not building a strong foundation. There's a great book, because I get inspiration from books. So here's a book that I recommend.

Jason (15:24)
is a great

book.

Joel Warady (15:25)
It's the infinite game and it is about growing businesses and growing brands that will last forever, infinitely. And so, you what I would say is the brands that, and the companies with whom I work, the ones that are doing really well have this long-term strategy as to how to grow the brand and how to grow the business. And it's a well-thought out strategy.

And one of the things that I do spend with all of the companies with whom I work is creating these three year strategic plans. And we do it every year and we update it every year to make sure that it's always current.

Jason (16:00)
And I think if I were to summarize and tell me if I have it right or wrong, Joel, it's really about purpose, right? So it's like, what is the purpose behind why you're doing this business? Is that purpose being taken out into the product that you have? Is it being communicated properly to the consumer? It's that thread that cuts across.

Joel Warady (16:19)
That's right. And what's interesting is what you didn't mention, which I agree with, it's not enough just to have a good product. It's not enough just to have a great product. There's a lot of great products out there, but you truly want to have that purpose and you have to understand the role that your product or your company fits into someone's life to understand what role you're going to play long-term in their lives.

So you absolutely summarized it correctly.

Jason (16:48)
Well, thank you. This is why we're friends. We think in a similar way. So we actually went through our five questions, and you passed with flying colors. Never a question for me. But I do have a bonus question. Thank you for being an amazing advisor on the Wisory. And so when folks come and look at you and see all the amazing things you've done, what questions

Joel Warady (16:50)
That's right.

Thank you.

Jason (17:10)
Would you say your best positioned to help them answer what would guidance would you want them to look for for you to provide?

Joel Warady (17:17)
I was telling someone yesterday in a meeting. I don't have a magic wand. What I can do is I can help people with clarity. Clarity of purpose is one of the areas I can help them with clarity of creating a path. What does the path look like? Now, the reality is the path will change no matter what we create. Things will happen. The path will change.

but I help people understand how to approach creating that path and then how to understand when it's time to pivot or take a right turn. So it's really providing this clarity for the future, which starts with building today a strong foundation and then growing the business from that foundation to provide that clarity down the road.

Jason (18:05)
That's terrific. Well, I am excited for our members to engage with you because I've seen firsthand what you do for businesses, the founders, the people who are managing it. And it may not be a magic wand, but you definitely sprinkle a little magic dust when you're with them.

Joel Warady (18:21)
Well, thanks.

Well, I appreciate that. As I always tell everyone, you know, as you get older, people's filter starts to dissipate. I turned mine off 10 years ago. And so when I work with people, I tell them exactly the way that I see it. And again, it goes back to I provide clarity.

Jason (18:40)
Well, I love your directness and the wisdom that you provide with it is so refreshing. So thank you for that. Thank you for being an Advisor. Thank you for making the time today. I really appreciate it, Joel.

Joel Warady (18:46)
Thanks. Thanks, Jason.

Yeah, it's great being on and look forward to engaging with anyone who wants to reach out to me.

Jason (18:57)
Wonderful. All right. All the best, my friend.

Joel Warady (18:59)
All right, thank you.